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 Post subject: Windwalking tips and things ( now with +10 more sense )
PostPosted: October 27th, 2014, 7:11 pm 
Master Troll

Joined: January 27th, 2014, 2:12 pm
Posts: 551
These are tips and things. Also a section explaining the class for noobs who want to know.
Split into a few sections. Also, I literally clicked a random shade of green every time I needed a color. Monks must be lazy.

1 | What is the windwalking ( ? )
2 | General ( silly important things )
3 | Monk things ( For monk things. Less than glaringly obvious rotation things )
4 | Common problems ( For common problems )
5 | PVP

1) What is windwalking?

For this, I am going to link responses from the neckbearded masses. Frankly, they word these things better and in a way that I agree with for the most part. Coloring out the important things. Tortoise and hair analogy was very well played. Just a disclaimer, we tend to have about as much burst as an elekk plushie:

----"WW is a different mindset than the other classes. Where as other DPS' have deep troughs and peaks in the charts, we even out with spurts when different things proc. Its the Tortoise of the Hare vs Tortoise story. We'll get you decent dps sustained over an entire fight, and you can count on that unless one of the RNG snafu's happen (happens to everyone so it isn't something we can blame the spec for). You won't win dps races, and many times you'll end up in the middle of the charts given similar gear (that's what Bliz is shooting for so don't let the simcraft fool you, we'll get smacked with a nerfbat somewhere in the future).

As for how it feels? You will get a challenge from it, but it's rewarding. The nice thing about WW is if you decide to dual spec, you can have a basic feel for Brew and Crane Stance Mistweaver as the specs use the same three basic spells (Jab, Tiger's Palm, and Blackout Kick) and build from there. You have to pay a lot of attention to the little things, and the mobility is definitely something you have to think about to get used to. Flying Serpent Kick is amazing for getting into and out of tight spots, and Transcendence is sort of like the Warlock self portal which rogues don't have.

Overall it's a very hit or miss spec. It requires a bit of different thinking, but if it fits you then you'll never want to go back." - Xianzhu



------"WW actually doesn't have a ton to keep up, a buff on you and a debuff on them, that's it really. The skill cap from monks comes from not capping resources. You have a small pool of ability spending points (chi) that have to be actively gained, and the resource you spend to get chi (energy) comes at you pretty fast. All of the intricacy of playing WW at a high level comes down to spending resources in an optimal way to not cap other resources. If you're at 3 chi (4 with Ascension), Jab isn't going to be a good call 99% of the time because you'll generate 1 chi over your cap, which is a waste (as a fun aside, the only instance I can think of where it may be worth doing this is with T16 4pc / CB (no charges) if you have > 10 stacks of TEB and RSK / FoF are about to come off CD together).

As for the skill cap of the class, I think it's an easy class to learn, and deep class to master. It does have its quirks (FoF being so powerful while making it easy to energy cap is awkward at the moment / SEF can be awkward in some corner cases (I'd love a way to swap SEF targets without having to unsummon and resummon them)) but in general it's very well designed (at present live play BEARD NOTE: THIS IS A LIE.). As someone who plays all 3 monk specs, Enh., Resto., Fury, Prot., Disc, Holy, Fire and Frost at an advanced to 14/14 mythic level, WW has the most interesting skill cap of any DPS class I've played or currently play.

My selling point for WW as a melee class vs. something like Enh. has been the multiple rotational abilities that don't have a CD (Jab / BK / TP (with procs)). Whereas with Enh. I feel like I'm playing close to optimally by just playing whack-a-mole on my 5 DPS buttons, all of which have CDs, with WW you almost always have multiple things you could be doing and it requires careful moment-to-moment contextual decision making to optimize your play." -Evansenter


For the most part, I agree with these posts. If you don't understand the enh comparison, sub in pre 6 ret pallies. The one thing I tend to not be completely sold on is the commmon opinion that this class has a 'deceptively high' skill cap. There isn't much you do differently from other energy based classes to be great at it.

For those who have heard me complain about this, and have studied my 100% accurate, not shameful graphs...this class will always climb in dps the longer a fight persists. None of this 'hovering at margin until every of my 4 major cds comes up' <===ENH SHAMAN

There are just odd mechanics with things, and you tend to get fucked by blizzards implementation of ability mechanics.
(Fists of fury, Zen sphere with clones , Zen sphere , Zen sphere again, Blackout kick, Roll, SEF clones.)

You also get cosmetically fucked: You can't visually attack with weapons, because monk mechanics. Many people complain, but it won't get fixed. What I mean is that they just sit on your back as you're jabbing, spinning, and roadhousing. Fist weapons are practically invisible.

Also, well designed my ass. I feel backwards playing this spec. Doesn't make it not fun, or any of the highlighted text not true. Last highlighted text very important.

2) General:


1) ALWAYS mangos, and nuts of choice.
-Brazil nuts are prefered, but any will do. Be cautious of those giant tubs of nuts that promise less than 50% peanuts. Shiesty assholes
give you like 49.9991% peanuts.

2) ALWAYS listen to The Scarecrow for indirect 7-10% DPS increase. I have ran the numbers with and without.
Probably only one person will understand this, so you're fucked out of the dps increase. My graphs are very clear and accurate. They definitely
represent correct trig functions and statistic terms. Here is my data:

Image


Image


Image


3) How to beat a warrior:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGWkhmCp_js

4) ALWAYS max sensitivty mouse.
-I mean, the 'How do you even...?' max sensitivity.

5) Scroll wheel bindings are for champions, but not neccissary.

6) Savory deviate mid fight. It sends the message 'Don't need a gcd for this shit'.

7) If there is a terrible monk app who is unwilling to learn, you must exile them with a very well played link
of the exile song from the lion king 2. Here it is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZLamQW ... redirect=1

DISCLAIMER: THE ABOVE #7 DOES NOT TARGET ANYONE IN GUILD. IT IS NOT MEANT TO OFFEND. IF IT DOES, THERE ARE MANGOS FOR THIS. IT IS QUITE LITERALLY A JOKE, FROM ME EXILING NOWEA AFTER HE WOULDN'T WINDWALK WITH ME. OH MY GOD THE CAPS GUYS.

8) Familiarize yourself with every video in this playlist.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ea06UWDBiMc

Fun Facts:

1) On 6.0 release, touch of karma was doing more single target damage than xuen.

2) Xuen sucks, but it doesn't suck.

3) Clones can be used to take mob aggro if you're low on table. You can also heal clones, which generates 0 threat.

4) If your windwalking speed aura keeps falling off, the macro ( /cast !Stance of the Fierce Tiger ) will fix. No longer will you have to change specs every 40 minutes.

Edit: Pretty sure this^ was hot fixed.

5) Windwalking speed aura stack with all forms of movespeed, additively I believe. So they stack with move speed boot enchants, giving you the option of going Kenyan. I wouldn't, you have roll, serpent kick, and tiger's lust.


3) Monk things ( The really important stuff ):

0) Ouro monk forums have links to pretty much all relevant monk websites for great info, go read.

If lazy:
viewtopic.php?f=47&t=5286


#) ALWAYS hold combo breaker: tiger palm procs until nearing refresh time of tiger power.
-when button is glowy and yellow, don't use until 1 second ( 2 if setting up for important things) before buff will expire. Tiger palm/power or w/e does not pandemic.

1) ALWAYS expel harm on cooldown. Most good players will say 'you only use it when you can truly benefit from the heal'. ???
Not today, it is 2 chi for 5 less energy cost, heals for shit ( but still more than surging mist, #getfucked) and you're a monk, shouldn't be dying much anyway. Also this means more healing meter padding, so your healers actually owe you.

2) Think outside the sheep. People tend to get stat trapped in this game because 'omg, this guide said...'. Most guides and what not
aren't actually crap, but try to understand why said stat is favored for your class so you can make more dynamic descisions with things.

3) Multistrike is fuck broke with most of windwalker kit. It does an odd thing with fists of fury, where is registers ( as of beta ) as single target damage, causing multistirke chances not to diminish. So using this in conjunction with 4 set brew and trinkets, you quite literally abrogate somethings soul from its body.

4) Until the functionality of Tiger's eye brew changes, which it won't because celestalon and team, ALWAYS turtle brew for trinket procs/hard hitting abilities. This is snapshotting, which still exists for windwalkers because brew damage increase is static.

5) ALWAYS expel ham(this typo was well played by me) spam before boss pull for 3-4 chi. Important to know that you won't gen any brew from this pre-chi, but it's still worth it. It's...kind of, pretty much, may as well be free damage. Literally the only downside is that is may or may not delay your burst phase
( HIGHLY depends on mastery rng fucking you or not.). Also, windwalker burst is basically non-existent, so I wouldn't worry to much about it. It's all about trying to get your brew up after this pre-chi, in time to utilize most of your on pull trinket proc. Pre-chi causes you to lose..maybe 2 seconds at the most.

5.5555555) This^ was iffy to do in siege. But with chi explosion being the way it is, and max chi being (guarneteed due to leveling perk) 5, and potentially 6 ( if using ascension, which parses best right now), you'll be able to get off a 4 - 6 pre-chi rotation. Now that I think about it, 6 will delay way too much. I'd probably start with 3 for most optimal just for free tiger sun kick. ( Which, unblorped, is tigers palm followed by rising sun kick.)

6) Bind flying serpent kick to a fucking button. It's worth it.

#) Blackout kick dot does not benefit from pandemic? Epidemic? That dot thing that adds duration that they implemented with wod. Does not benefit, so you're fucked into 4 seconds.

7) Don't forget you have a 1 second gcd, throughout your entire kit. It isn't just jab, it's everything.

8) Zen sphere. For this, i'm going to link an explination by the hero of the people, totalchai ( worded better than I ever could):

"Q: Zen Sphere or Chi Wave?
A: In an ideally perfect world where you can maintain ZS on two different targets for its full duration, it’s more DPS, however in practice it will detonate early quite often as targets fall under 35%. General response has been that this is a good example of sims not always reflecting reality based on things being a little too perfect."

So, this ^. There are ways around earlier detonation, like figuring out which melee don't die constantly.

9) Chi wave. Use it if you can't zen sphere, and 4 or less targets in a fight. Will mention this again, but you should look at this level 30 talent row as this. Leaving flow charts to Ry.

Image


Ultimately, you can take zen sphere out of the equation entirely. It is dps increase, but can be too korean of skill requirement to use, especially with lvl 90 AOC ( and chi wave close enough in damage output..kind of/not really). I would only consider it as an option if you plan on going maximum try hard. Example of maximum try hard would be race changing dranei(max dps), name changing to squidbeard, and buying a naga.
Also, fuck nagas. 2/3 will suffice.

More on chi wave: ALWAYS chi wave > blackout kick on priority. Does more damage, just less bursted. Also gives time before you have to fuck your blackout kick dot. Blizzard is so bad.....

Chi wave > Chi explosion? Probably not, no idea yet. I'd say in this case you'd save it for am empty gcd so: If chi explosion, only use if you have 1) No cooldowns up ( Rsk/fof )
2) No energy.

11) Since player health pools were buffed overall, the karma nerf from 100, to 50% health wasn't really a nerf. There was math and shit done on it, too lazy to find it. Those 100% clear and accurate graphs took all my energy.

Edit: Yea, i'm not going to go find this math, just trust it.

12) Almost forgot to mention. The new wod t17 LFR sets, which are not tier come with a special set bonus.
2 set = 100 agi
4 set = Your special attacks have a chance to increase your Energy regeneration rate by 30% for 6 sec. (Approximately 1.00 procs per minute)

Going into mythic, assuming lfr gear is == to heroic gear, and not worse than, you'll *probably* want to pick this up. I have read nothing on this, I know of no math to be done, but the general sense is that unless you lotto roll all haste gear ( which will tank the fuck of your deeps > multistrike , you're going to have energy problems. I see this being a decent grab. It may even be cable of back to back, out of sync trinket proc type procs despite the 1 time per minute bullshit that blizzard keeps doing.


?) Chi explosion:

Instead of reverting buffs, blizzard decided to cap our aoe damage. Thanks assholes.

Damage to Primary target: 100% damage
Combined damage to Secondary targets: ( 1 / n ) ; n = number of secondary targets. Also, should be able to understand easily that secondary target damage is based on primary.

So you can use head math ( not explaining that ), or a handy desktop calculator"
4 targets = (1 / 4) = 0.25, then move decimal. Assume Chi-explo hits for EXACTLY 100 damage.

Looks like this for 4 targets:

---Primary---S1---S2---S3
---100---25---25---25

3 is:

---100---33---33

2 is:

---100---50

40 targets?:
Grats, you hit for 2.5% damage. Rivaling that of a boomkin.

This is the EXACT same formula that fists of fury follows.

So what does this do?
-No idea. Testing shows that when using RJW ( to compensate for chi-explosion aoe damage cap ) alonside Chi-explosion, they're having negative results on each other. Can't begin to understand why, probably a haste issue.

??) Stats:

Refer to 'Jank ass derivatives'. Should be updated with multistrike whenever Jocias(monk guy) stops being lazy.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... nteractive

^mah jank ass derivatives broke.
Anyway, it showed stat weights based on ilvl. Made by Jocias, titled 'Jank ass derivatives'.

When wod launches, you will most likely gem multistrike until you hemmorage from your eyes. There just isn't much trade off and decisions to be made with this, outside of haste. Not entirely sure how chi explosion damage cap will dictate needed haste rating for rjw, or if we just stomach the nerf and stop trying to fix it with a NEW awkwardly broken rotation.


Idk what number this should be) 2h vs. Dw:

Another quote from totalchai, better explained.

"DW is only about 3% more damage than 2h since a balancing change was made in beta about two months ago. 1 item level is around 1% more stats (not exactly true, but close enough), so 2h and DW break even if the 2h is about 3 item levels higher. Any more than that and the high item level is strictly better.

The difference is a lot smaller than it was in MoP, just using whatever is the higher item level is almost always the right answer now."

Again, number??) This is very important. Look, it's even in red:

Correctly leveling up garrisons in wod is apparently a thing. Certain build order are better for different classes, or so I've been told. I have no idea how they work because I tend to not read things about sim style features, when I could just go play the actual sims. Here is a link from a blog by total. Goes very in depth to explain garrison orders and what not.

First, a list to all alliance followers:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

Now, garrison post:

http://totaltt.net/2014/10/29/post-100- ... son-guide/

The garrison post is based on the premise that you would dungeon grind for 10 levels, never actually leveling, so you would miss out on garrison knowledge. Just read it anyway.


121412) Windwalker race parses(Courtesy of Justwait):

Code:
Monk_Windwalker_1h_T17M_gnome : 44718 dps
Monk_Windwalker_1h_T17M_draenei : 44707 dps
Monk_Windwalker_1h_T17M_Troll : 44699 dps
Monk_Windwalker_1h_T17M_tauren : 44695 dps
Monk_Windwalker_1h_T17M_dwarf : 44679 dps
Monk_Windwalker_1h_T17M_night_elf : 44647 dps
Monk_Windwalker_1h_T17M_blood_elf : 44625 dps
Monk_Windwalker_1h_T17M_orc : 44673 dps
Monk_Windwalker_1h_T17M_human : 44600 dps
Monk_Windwalker_1h_T17M_pandaren : 44449 dps

All simmed, so not 100% accurate. Honestly though, it's pretty accurate.


----39wioedn2) BIS LIST( Courtesy of Justwait):

Code:
Slot: Name Primary Secondary Location: Wowhead URL

Head Hood of Burning Focus Multistrike Haste Random http://www.wowhead.com/item=109975&bonus=524
Amulet Windseal Necklace Haste Multistrike Random http://www.wowhead.com/item=109953&bonus=524
Shoulder Crystalbinder Shoulderpads Multistrike Versatility Random http://www.wowhead.com/item=109936&bonus=524
Cloak Cloak of Cascading Blades Haste Crit Random http://www.wowhead.com/item=109904&bonus=524
Chest Blackwater Wrap Multistrike Haste Random http://www.wowhead.com/item=109898&bonus=524
Bracers Leafmender Wraps Multistrike Crit Random http://www.wowhead.com/item=109871&bonus=524
Gloves Blackwater Grips Multistrike Versatility Random http://www.wowhead.com/item=109862&bonus=524
Belt Belt of Burning Focus Multistrike Haste Random http://www.wowhead.com/item=109829&bonus=524
Leggings Bloodfeather Leggings Multistrike Crit Random http://www.wowhead.com/item=109810&bonus=524
Feet Bloodfeather Treads Multistrike Haste Random http://www.wowhead.com/item=109788&bonus=524
Ring Signet of Radiant Leaves Haste Multistrike Random http://www.wowhead.com/item=109762&bonus=524
Trinket 1 Blood Seal of Azzakel Agi Crit(Passive) Auchindon http://www.wowhead.com/item=109995&bonus=524
Trinket 2 Gor'ashan's Lodestone Spike Agi Multistrike(Use) UBRS http://www.wowhead.com/item=109998&bonus=524

For sheet bis list: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0


4) Common problems:

1) The 'Wtf, my aoe is super inconsistent' problem.
-Hmm...clone management. I haven't/won't be able to tell people how to aoe correctly in wod. There are so many variables now that multistrike exists,and t17 4 set.
Actually, no I totally can. You just apply basic principles of Tiger's eye brew > Ham, but while aoeing. What I don't know, is where fof fits into this. HIGHLY doubt
RJW will ever be used as long as reign of chi-explosion is a thing. With stat priority being so multistrike cenetered, and RJW sucking goat, I see no way as of now that
it would ever have priority over a 4 chi chi-explosion. So let me tldr..

TLDR 1; Tiger's eye brew, then go ham. Keep in mind multistrike effects and t17 4 set, which still translates into Tiger's eye brew then go ham.
TLDR 2; Clone management. If your clone is still stuck on far away add, bring it in. You want all clones around you at all times for RSK debuff cleave/morale. Idk, it just
feels better with your posey around you. As Rider from fate zero said, 'A king never fights alone'....until nerf comet rolls around ^^. Also, keep in mind clone fist of fury.
Your clones will stop moving to, and fists are SLIGHTLY delayed compared to yours, just keep in mind, unless they benefit from glyph.
TLDR3; Consider different t30 talent row option. It will probably be chi wave until the dawn of new man, but uhh...if you can get zen sphere to work, you should use it > wave
especially for aoe. Chi burst for 5+ targets if you can't sphere.

2) The 'Wtf, my single target is super inconsistent' problem.
-So is mine, either get good at ddosing ( ~80% reccomended. Two birds one stone, cause warriors.) or
(Ask steag, who is now caulle). Only things I can think of are, tiger sun kick 100% uptime, fof off cd, chi wave ~ on cd, roadhouse(blackout kick) for days.
So serenity. Not sure how it will be incorperated, but from my general understanding, which is typically right about things monk related. 10 seconds of infinite chi..you should
try to avoid dropping a fists of fury during serenity, if at all possible. Yea, it was a free fists, but thats also a free 3 seconds of serenity you just wasted. Maybe during lust, when
haste is so high, dropping fof cast time to like 1.5 sec? But I don't see why you would stack perma spam buff, with perma spam buff.

TLDR;Make sure abilities are being prioritized correctly. Brew is being used and followed up with ham at the right time, not wasting damage, etc.

5) Pvp:
Baited.

Closing stuff:

Read things.

This is what could have been....Rip, hope for entitled overpowered damage. So say we all:

Image

Image

Pm a monk for monk channel access. What happeneds in monkoboros, occasionally stays in monkoboros ( sorry steag!).

Godspeed and all that.


Last edited by Nobeard on November 4th, 2014, 8:18 pm, edited 18 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The various tips from your beardless windwalker
PostPosted: October 29th, 2014, 11:06 am 
Muffin

Joined: August 25th, 2014, 8:28 pm
Posts: 31
Halp, this is what happens when I go ham.


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 Post subject: Re: The various tips from your beardless windwalker
PostPosted: October 29th, 2014, 3:16 pm 
Master Troll
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Joined: November 8th, 2009, 2:51 am
Posts: 599
You and Fridge should collaborate on an art project, your styles are very similar.

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 Post subject: Re: The various tips from your beardless windwalker
PostPosted: October 31st, 2014, 4:22 pm 
Master Troll

Joined: January 27th, 2014, 2:12 pm
Posts: 551
There was no delete button.


Last edited by Nobeard on November 2nd, 2014, 1:18 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The various tips from your beardless windwalker
PostPosted: October 31st, 2014, 4:43 pm 
Master Troll
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Joined: September 17th, 2013, 9:53 pm
Posts: 889
Location: Spokane Valley, WA
I saw numbers and began salivating. Also... staying away from Agility, how!

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 Post subject: Re: The various tips from your beardless windwalker
PostPosted: October 31st, 2014, 5:02 pm 
Master Troll

Joined: January 27th, 2014, 2:12 pm
Posts: 551
Also, no delete button.


Last edited by Nobeard on November 2nd, 2014, 1:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The various tips from your beardless windwalker
PostPosted: October 31st, 2014, 5:13 pm 
Master Troll

Joined: January 27th, 2014, 2:12 pm
Posts: 551
Still no.


Last edited by Nobeard on November 2nd, 2014, 1:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The various tips from your beardless windwalker
PostPosted: October 31st, 2014, 10:09 pm 
Master Troll

Joined: January 27th, 2014, 2:12 pm
Posts: 551
Nope. Keldia, pls.


Last edited by Nobeard on November 2nd, 2014, 1:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostThis post was deleted by Nobeard on November 2nd, 2014, 1:19 pm.
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 Post subject: Re: Windwalking tips and things ( now with +10 more sense )
PostPosted: November 2nd, 2014, 1:21 pm 
Master Troll

Joined: January 27th, 2014, 2:12 pm
Posts: 551
Updated everything. 'Jank ass derivatives' doc blew up.


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